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Archive for December, 2008

andreaandrewmilne

Dear Luxlucis, if you want to operate with an eccentric definition of “finding god”, and encourage listening to a troublesome 1st century rabbi, in order to promote polite respect, cool justice, and passionate desire, I do not dispute the merits of your aims. BUT, the god-delusion is not necessary or useful to the aims, and is dangerous. Fine moralists and lawgivers don’t need pretensions to divine infallibility. Try Shakespeare, Mary Wollstonecraft, James Madison, Tom Paine, Germaine Greer, etc x andrea

 

 

luxlucis777

2 Corinthians 5:19-20 What we mean is that God was in Christ, offering peace and forgiveness to the people of this world. And he has given us the work of sharing his message about peace. We were sent to speak for Christ, and God is begging you to listen to our message. We speak for Christ and sincerely ask you to make peace with God.

 

2 Corinthians 5:16-18 We are careful not to judge people by what they seem to be, though we once judged Christ in that way. Anyone who belongs to Christ is a new person. The past is forgotten, and everything is new. God has done it all! He sent Christ to make peace between himself and us, and he has given us the work of making peace between himself and others.

 

2 Corinthians 5:13-15 If we seem out of our minds, it is between God and us. But if we are in our right minds, it is for your good. We are ruled by Christ’s love for us. We are certain that if one person died for everyone else, then all of us have died. And Christ did die for all of us. He died so we would no longer live for ourselves, but for the one who died and was raised to life for us.

 

 

andreaandrewmilne

Dear Luxlucis777, I suggest your quotes are best taken as further evidence of faith as mental illness. The attempt, by citing empty authority, to outsmart criticism in advance as a delusion, no matter that the critics might have intelligent points, has the hallmark of a paranoid brilliance. The calm position is to suspend for the purposes of this debate the truth-value (false, of course) of religious beliefs, and ask if the patterns of thought and behaviour indicate illness….

 

… If the specifically religious beliefs are false (you know, all that pseudo-science; and talk of real deities, mostly vengeful and hyper-masculine; and all the hatred, esp of the feminine), then we have a useful diagnosis and therapy. Stop teaching this god-tosh in childhood, when we should be teaching a love of justice and kindness and democracy, a delight (when older) in the erotic, and a devotion to science. Of course, your quotes may have been ironic! x and Happy 08, andrea

 

 

luxlucis777

 

1 Corinthians 1:18-19,25 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
For the “foolishness” of God is wiser than man’s “wisdom”, and the “weakness” of God is stronger than man’s “strength”.

  

 

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andreaandrewmilne 

 

Alternately… (and I don’t give a sh*t about marriage, but many do, and this is an equal treatment issue), Congress could legislate to make explicit that the meaning of marriage is not delimited by the gender of the parties. Cheeky polyamourist, I might also suggest it should not be limited only to couples.

 

Scalia J would be throwing darts at pictures of members of congress.

 

But, come-one, whereas my sober proposal below would get the votes, neither of the above is realistic.

 

Good federalist, I think the way out is for congress to repeal DOMA and legislate a series of “civil unions” (one of which is trad-US-marriage) to be accorded “full faith and credit”, then let interstate competition generate de-facto acceptance of “marriage by whatever genders”. No state would suceed in legislating benefits for only one form of civil union. 

 

x andrea

 

oblaskins

 

Prop 8 has nothing to do with human rights

 

Homosexuals in California still have the right to a civil union which, legally speaking, entails the same rights as a marriage

 

Prop 8 is about protecting the religious institution of marriage.

 

To say that it’s a Human Rights issue is stupid and ignorant

Kuzalias

 

Marriage is -not- a religious institution, as it is an institution of the state supported by tax dollars. Therefore, it can not be regarded as a “religious institution” according to our laws.

The divide between marriage and the civil union creates a class of “separate but equal.”
This is usually referred to as “segregation.” It is not legal to segregate a law-abiding, tax paying citizen.

There is no law requiring states to provide the same benefits to gay couples anyway. 

 

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I read that the “inspired” connection between the words and music is not as it appears. What seems to celebrate the words from Isaiah, was originally written for a profane, frivolous, duet for two sopranos castigating “blind Cupid” and “cruel beauty.”

How even more “divine”, then, if a radical Handel had, perhaps, written an oratorio to the Birth of Venus (that pesky imps mother), and the joy in a natural religion that celebrated the eroticism that fires all human creativity & love.

GFH and the Christian mythology are robust enough for a little very well intentioned teasing.

If by the erotic one means a lovely sense of sharing oneself, playfulness, deep yearning, a transcendental desire and reverence, a sense of dissolving the barriers between oneself and another – well, adults at their best can do that. It is also at the heart of “religious” experience. Certainly there are echoes of it in the way mothers and infants are together. Vide Freud’s “3 Essays”.

I modestly propose a slightly more humanist, democratic, feminist ode to joy. One that runs through my head and heart when I hear the annual Messiah at St James in Piccadilly. The stresses still work well:

“From us a goddess is born, unto us all love is given,
And our government shall be upon our shoulders,
And her name shall be called beautiful, counsellor,
The mighty goddess, the everlasting mother, the princess of peace!”

xx andrea, recovering from xmas

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