Just another feminist, atheist, humanist, polyamourous, erotic-positive scallywag. S/he who is a complete sex-and-gender rebel, who lives radical trans [(F or M) → x]. S/he who once, reasonably enough, called herself bisexual, but not anymore, because sex-and-gender dimorphism is a misguided model. S/he who has faith in an objective, material and scientific world. S/he who loves freedom of expression, limited constitutional government, free-markets, art and music. S/he who is a romantic, a radical individualist and libertarian. S/he who believes in the direct equation between the divine, the transcendental and the erotic. S/he who is XX, but considers that to be of little significance. And who is often on her knees in adoration before her friends and lovers, who are to be most devoutly revered and desired. Or lecturing them, a wagging finger pointed upwards as in "The School of Athens".
I politely suggest morality is not the relative quality you would have it be. I suggest one may, indeed, look across all times, places and peoples, to discern whether their standard met or declined from an objective and universal morality. True, under pressure of circumstance, people may do wrongful things, but offer extenuating circumstances. For instance, having to cut the rope on some of your fellow rock climbers to save the rest of the team….
…..It is still wrong, but excusable because of necessity. Now, if you suppose there were desperate circumstances in which survival of a population ABSOLUTELY NECESSITATED 9yr old children having sex with adults in their 50s, I would want to see the fossil/ethnographic/documentary evidence. I gravely doubt it. I gravely doubt there was ever a population of humans with a significant percentage of its fertile members being children aged 9 (male or female)….
Even if you have the evidence, it would merely prove the people acted wrongly, but out of necessity.
BTW, this person Mohammed, if he existed with any definite biography, was just another human like you or me. Though I get the impression he was a bit of an Arabian warlord, who perhaps enjoyed killing his enemies. I’m afraid there are no morally perfect people, no goddesses/gods, no heaven or hell, no devils, and certainly no prophets.
Sorry for the delay, mainly because part of your comment is a rehash. Here is our answer:
(i) Morality does not simply change with time, it SOMETIMES change with CONDITIONS, which may change with time or PLACE. Therefore “contemporary morality” is a wrong argument:
A) It is confused about the fact that changes in conditions of life MAY DICTATE changes in morality.
B) It is also confused that merely coming later in time always mean better morality in all issues.
(ii) This vid precisely shows with 170+ modern, non-Muslim references, that ‘up-to-date biological science & modern psychology CONFIRM the impeccable morality of Muhammad, the greatest man that ever existed.
We wrote above that:
If humanity (or some future isolated space colony for example) goes back to:
a- Similar conditions threatening extinction
b- And under the same simple life conditions (such as after a nuclear world wide war or extremely strong virus)
Then WE KNOW what GOD MADE ALLOWABLE (early procreation WITHIN marriage & other rules mentioned in these 2 parts) & what He did not (incest, fornication, adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, etc).
This is all very interesting, but you shy away from two central questions:
(i) is the example of Mohammed marrying a girl aged 6 and having sex with her aged 9, morally right or wrong now, according to modern morality?
(ii) does the contemporary moral worth of Mohamed’s example depend on the truth of his religious/metaphysical claims, OR rather on a humanist system of ethics, up-to-date biological science, and modern psychology?
andreaandrewmilne's jardin des délices 
Prophet Muhammad Aisha 1/3
Posted in YouTube text comments on February 4, 2009| Leave a Comment »
andreaandrewmilne
Dear muhaddith,
Thanks for the answers.
I politely suggest morality is not the relative quality you would have it be. I suggest one may, indeed, look across all times, places and peoples, to discern whether their standard met or declined from an objective and universal morality. True, under pressure of circumstance, people may do wrongful things, but offer extenuating circumstances. For instance, having to cut the rope on some of your fellow rock climbers to save the rest of the team….
…..It is still wrong, but excusable because of necessity. Now, if you suppose there were desperate circumstances in which survival of a population ABSOLUTELY NECESSITATED 9yr old children having sex with adults in their 50s, I would want to see the fossil/ethnographic/documentary evidence. I gravely doubt it. I gravely doubt there was ever a population of humans with a significant percentage of its fertile members being children aged 9 (male or female)….
Even if you have the evidence, it would merely prove the people acted wrongly, but out of necessity.
BTW, this person Mohammed, if he existed with any definite biography, was just another human like you or me. Though I get the impression he was a bit of an Arabian warlord, who perhaps enjoyed killing his enemies. I’m afraid there are no morally perfect people, no goddesses/gods, no heaven or hell, no devils, and certainly no prophets.
x andrea
muhaddithORG
Sorry for the delay, mainly because part of your comment is a rehash. Here is our answer:
(i) Morality does not simply change with time, it SOMETIMES change with CONDITIONS, which may change with time or PLACE. Therefore “contemporary morality” is a wrong argument:
A) It is confused about the fact that changes in conditions of life MAY DICTATE changes in morality.
B) It is also confused that merely coming later in time always mean better morality in all issues.
(ii) This vid precisely shows with 170+ modern, non-Muslim references, that ‘up-to-date biological science & modern psychology CONFIRM the impeccable morality of Muhammad, the greatest man that ever existed.
We wrote above that:
If humanity (or some future isolated space colony for example) goes back to:
a- Similar conditions threatening extinction
b- And under the same simple life conditions (such as after a nuclear world wide war or extremely strong virus)
Then WE KNOW what GOD MADE ALLOWABLE (early procreation WITHIN marriage & other rules mentioned in these 2 parts) & what He did not (incest, fornication, adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, etc).
andreaandrewmilne
This is all very interesting, but you shy away from two central questions:
(i) is the example of Mohammed marrying a girl aged 6 and having sex with her aged 9, morally right or wrong now, according to modern morality?
(ii) does the contemporary moral worth of Mohamed’s example depend on the truth of his religious/metaphysical claims, OR rather on a humanist system of ethics, up-to-date biological science, and modern psychology?
These are vital issues. x andrea
Read Full Post »